Is anyone else thinking these centers aren't strictly for AI infrastructure, but for surveillance? All the data collected by all of America's Flock cameras, traffic cameras, future CBDC endeavors, etc., has to be collected, collated, and disseminated from somewhere, right?
Correct! Go to the head of the class. They are like electric dog fences but for more complex human beings. You are being fenced in by robotics that watches and tracks your every move. You are being profiled by your data. They will make avatars out of your persona; your voice, your image, etc. as it might be useful to them or as it suits them. The you that is you will be inside the data guts of their “Leviathan” machines. You are being swallowed like Jonah while the oligarchs play God with you. If you are not leary of this disruptive technology, you are a sap!
Exactly! So much data on us every day, listening devices (ALexa) and ALL apps on your phone, socials and browser histories, smart home devices, multi camera security systems, traffic cams, so many forced email sign ups (exponentially producing spam junk) already happening; all while A.I. blooms beyond the creator’s ability to regulate/control IT.
No one, except the people who own them, knows exactly what data centers are doing. What kind of data? For what purposes? Did the Internet suddenly need more capacity so AI builders can steal more data? Is it for surveillance? Financial manipulation?
We simply do not know the actual purpose of data centers.
Taking the word of the owners of data centers is unlikely to end well for most people.
As someone in the tech industry, I can promise you it's overwhelmingly exactly what they say it's for. There's not a conspiracy there.
Mining crypto doesn't make sense almost anywhere in the U.S. because you can get power cheaper elsewhere, the latency doesn't matter in any way, and at this point you might not even break even due to sky-high GPU costs. If you want to build data centre's for surveillance, you only need a couple of them to cover everyone in the U.S. (and they already exist if you search for them).
The AI thing is the genuine, real reason in most cases - the latest AI models from Meta/X/Claude/OpenAI/and the dozen other companies all have over a trillion parameters. That's 1,000,000,000,000+ parameters.
So every AI query you or I run requires every single character to go through those 1,000,000,000,000+ parameters before coming out the other side. That's a HUGE amount of math to do, and all that work to generate ONE character of output. That giant input+output then gets fed back to itself in a loop to generate the next character of output. So every query anyone does, that's hundreds of those iterations.
And that's considered the cheap part. The expensive part is training it - doing that same process with an answer key trillions and trillions of times.
(And just a disclaimer, I'm not advocating for more of them, especially not how it's being done - I just figured you'd be interested!)
This leads to other questions/problems I have about AI.
It sounds as though it’s massively inefficient from both a resources and computing power standpoint. Since AI apparently struggles with each calculation, it is unable to design more efficient back ended systems, data centers, for itself., for example.
And if training the systems is the expensive part, and the AI industry already appropriating much of this data for free by simply stealing it, who is on the receiving end of all the cash being paid for the “training”?
Thousands of programmers have been laid off, so this must be a very select group.
This leads back to efficiency. This seems very inefficient from an economic standpoint.
So, does this mean AI is a technology that is harming resources (water/electricity/land), harming humans with jobs losses, and economic disruption, and simply being too expensive, while also not being very efficient technically?
Doesn’t sound like a great “deal” to me.
And more specifically about data centers: When a data center exhausts all the water and exceeds the available power at one location, then what? Move on to the next place where water and power is still available and rinse and repeat?
Oh yeah, the efficiency is horrific. There's been some innovation there, like technically it's not so much one character (or token) at a time, but it can now be batched in various ways, but the point is it's still incredibly compute intensive.
The cost thing is complicated. Chip/memory makers like Nvidia and power/water suppliers are making off like bandits right now. Companies like Anthropic or OpenAI are generally losing billions and billions of dollars of investor money who all believe in a long-term future where we can't live without AI, and thus getting early on the train will result in crazy profit (and now software companies' who get a little bit more efficiency for writing code).
AI is perfect for capitalism. It's what machines did for capitalism during industrial revolution: replace workers and reduce costs. Capitalism profits from that: less costs, more consumerism = more profit. And as machine threatened workers with the loss of labor back then, capitalists are using AI to do massive layoffs to spread that fear right now. There aren't tech workers these days who aren't using AI. If you want to keep your job, regardless of what you think of it, you need it to use it.
Personally, I have no use for AI. It is being shoved down the public’s throat. Why is it such a secret? Why don’t they build these things in other countries & not the US?
Anything that has ever been rushed into like this project, has always turned out to be a scam or a big painful problem for the general population. Red flags are everywhere, lack of transparency and information is unbelievable, the money thrown around is senseless. We can do better.
Regardless of the environmental implications, no one should find out about large scale construction in their community from hearing said construction beginning.
I appreciate how you approach this issue in a measured, realistic way, not wholeheartedly condemning data centers nor blindly supporting them. You're arguing for transparency and fairness, which we could certainly use more of. In a very polarized world, we don't often hear a balanced approach like this, so thank you.
Ai is said to use 10x the energy of regular computing. So how can our infrastructure, environment and society withstand the energy use of the equivalent of 3.3 BILLION people computing on AI-driven devices just here in the USA? They are keeping it secret because "the devil is in the details."
But would our corporate-owned media keep such a major threat to the environment, society and future generations a secret, like they've done since the 70's with fossil fuel use and the climate disruption? You better believe it.
The corporate media has not fairly reported on the outrageous and unsustainable use of finite natural resources by data centers because of their major corporate bias. The media has not reported on companies that abandon their workers for AI and greater profits because of their corporate bias. To be fair, the corporate media never reports on labor issues. It's not a coincidence that Presidential debates on ALL the networks do not address climate disruption and solutions to protect future generations.
Just say NO to data centers. We did fine before now without them. I don't want AI for anything. If a business wants to build a data center, they can pay to power them with solar or wind power. I've got no problem with data centers that do not endanger society and future generations.
Name one hospital that cannot get a data center? Hospitals don't need more data centers. Hospitals are doing very good now.
TV commercials are running as interactive. These new types of advertising are causing the need for more data centers. Corporations want to store more data of consumers. Everywhere cars go with on-star are tracked. This data needs data centers to store the data and use AI for predicted advertising. This is driving Data centers, not hospital.
All this data compiled will be used by corporations to advertise. "Data is the new gold." If a driver goes past McDonalds everyday, ads can be sent to the driver goind past McDonalds using a voiced commercial. "Mr.Jones, you have 30 before arriving at your appointment, would you like a Big Mac and fries with a free drink? Offer expires in 10 minutes"
It's not hospitals that are driving the need for more data centers. You are trying to equate something important, hospitals, with something frivolous, deep consumer habits used for advertising. It's applies and oranges, bro. Consumer data is really not that important. People can buy what they want without ads.
Surely you see why all the data from consumer habits, with their location data, with info mined from their social media and past purchases and then is used by corporations' ads takes a million times more data and AI than fewer than 330 million American's health records?
More data centers really are not necessary. Trust me, hospitals have not shortage of data needs.
They ALL endanger us, even with solar & wind power. Solar & wind production is its own scam and will never create the needed power it claims. It’s stealing our resources in other ways, and the cost of upkeep in ridiculous.
Data centers spew diesel emissions & water needed for cooling is an enormous resource burden that’s not sustainable. Even with advanced technologies to filter chemical waters, clean, and replace that cooling water, will never truly “ replace” our mineral rich natural water sources.
They want us to trust the companies that are working to enslave us. What could go wrong?
Microsoft, Meta, Google, Amazon, Equinix, etc.
We can’t trade our freedoms for convenience.
We worked too hard for them. Veterans died for them. This is our war. 🇺🇸💕
"Solar and wind power ...will never create the needed power it claims," is your opinion that is based on current numbers and technology." Look how much efficiency has increased with engines over the last 20 years. The production cost has gone down too. Likewise, solar and wind technology will continue to produce more power at a lower cost. Of course, advancement happens faster with more investment in R&D.
Its not fair to dismiss solar and wind because of production predictions. You didn't explain why industry predictions will not materialize. It seems your mind is made up so you speculate industry production predictions will not materialize. It's very likely the industry used a curve to of industry advancement, like that of gas engines, to predict future energy production. This is fair because we have seen major advancements over time. The more we invest in R&D, the faster we will see more production at lower costs.
Your other false premise is that solar and wind are not viable because they can never produce the amount of energy made from fossil fuels. The goal is not to completely replace oil and gas. Replacing oil and gas with wind and solar was never the goal. The goal is to lessen the need for oil and gas, and lessen the US carbon release from oil and gas, by producing 10%, or 20%, or 30% of energy from alternative sources.
By replacing a fraction of the need to burn fossil fuels, or dependence on fossil fuels is decrease, and less green house gasses are produced. Keep in mind, with population growth around the world, just off-setting the increase usage due to population growth is a major victory for decreasing greenhouse gases.
Most importantly, having alternative energy brings down the cost of oil and gas because we have less dependency. Since oil and gas are finite resources, the more we produce and use brings us closer to peak oil when costs will greatly escalate. Investing in alternative energy pushes back the clock for peak oil. In this way, wind and solar increase USA National security and financial security for American consumers.
In closing, the strongest portfolios are diversified. US energy usage is the same way. Surely you can see the national security benefits if the US energy production portfolio was 25% wind, 25% solar, 25% oil and gas, and 25% nuclear?
The actual percentages will change over time based on many factors, including R&D investment.
The point is that USA national security is stronger with a more diversified energy portfolio, and consumers will pay less across the board for eneegy. An oil and gas only economy is mono-culture that is most vulnerable to geo-political factors like Iran. An oil and gas mino-culture is unsustainable for future generations for several reasons.
Another important factor I did not touch on is conservation. Conservation decreases our need for all energy sources. The major deal breaker for data centers is that they require too much energy from fossil fuels and all our conservation savings are lost.
I agree with your last sentence. I don’t agree that trading good farm land for solar or wind power is a sound solution. Free energy is not far away, and the people in charge are scrambling to get data centers built first. Many have been close to exposing this technology. Unfortunately, they had unexpected illnesses or accidents before they could. The prediction for wind & solar energy is no different than the claim of “ finite” oil & gas. How do we REALLY know the truth? We don’t. Maybe we have unlimited fresh water, oil, etc., hidden in Antarctica or protected by military regulations?
Also, we assume populations are growing, but many countries have had increased all- cause mortality, and less births. The total world population is another questionable assumption. China is an example of larger population data that many are questioning. ( there are a lot of empty buildings & entire areas)
Bottom line is we are not going to “ conserve” energy, by expanding data centers, that are unnecessary.
By adding solar, wind, and hydro- energy, we still won’t negate their harms. Meanwhile, we will have lost our veteran farmers & land, and will be left with depleted wastelands.
Pay attention to technology “ they” say we need for society, safety, etc., but the reality is completely different.
Digital ID, flock cameras, most “ smart” technology, have dual use & the reason they are promoted, aren’t always the REAL reason.
Sorry this reply is all over the place. I’m open to looking at all current technology & benefits. I just don’t trust those that tend to push & profit from it. In Wa. state, we are seeing dept. of Ecology behind a lot of potential corrupt practices to basically control/ steal land from long time farmers and ranchers. That is the story everywhere. Tech. companies & gov. agencies are teaming up to acquire land that has been family owned for over 100 years.
( Kings farm vs. Wa. dept of Ecology)
- another is 84 year old man( Spokane), that’s being fined for watering wrong field, with HIS water.
I disagree. Oil is a finite resource because it took millions of years of geologic circumstances to create. Oil is not still be created underground. Sorry, all geologists are in agreement that oil is a finite resource.
Long before all the oil is captured, we will reach peak oil. Peak oil is when it becomes much more expensive, or too expensive, to capture. Talk of drilling for oil in the Artic circle suggests that peak oil is not that far off. Deep water drilling suggests that we are approaching peak oil. The deep water Horizon disaster shows the dangers of trying to drill in difficult, unchartered waters.
China knows that the real race is to create more sustainable energy from solar and other alternative sources.
I agree that putting solar on good farmland is stupid. Look at all the land that is not farmable that is great for solar in the desert Southwest. Most rooftops are available for solar panels. Modern home designs with passive and active alternate energy sources can make power from the grid unnecessary. Surplus energy it put back on the grid. This technology is here.
Bottom line is that data centers are unnecessary and unsustainable. I'm sure Google and tech would love to have more data on consumers. With AI all the data can be mined to create personalized ads to us. The energy and water costs are not worth it. Medical research using AI can be done now without data centers. Using AI to create fake videos of politicians shows that the AI industry is unnecessary and a bad use of energy.
You are a smarty, for sure. Our real enemy is the U.N.Agenda 30. It won’t matter about oil when we aren’t allowed to travel anymore. It’s not a conservation thing, it’s a slavery thing. 🤦♀️ Have you listened to or read Rosa Koire book, “ Behind the Green Mask”? She’s also on YouTube. It’s dated a little, but very relevant.
The next few years will be interesting. Most people are completely unaware of local issues concerning “ future” plans in their own city. Many in the U.S. have mandated them into law. Lots of rezoning & eminent domain has happened in Wa. already. Lots of land grabs happening with our farmland here.
I don’t trust what gov. claims about oil reserves, etc. They all lie. I hope things change & citizens demand transparency. ✌️
I honestly dont ever see the UN having jurisdiction over any city or State in the USA. A UN imposed travel ban won't happen in the USA. Not ever. The UN knows better.
However, the UN should have jurisdiction over areas in Africa that have Ebola cases. The UN needs to lockdown that area and ban travel until the Ebola outbreak is contained.
It sounds like your interpretation of Agenda 30 does not consider why banning travel in certain areas is best for society. Don't you see why UN Security Forces should stop Ebola infected areas from traveling outside the affected areas and across borders? We pay the most for the UN, so we control what they do and do not do.
Danny, you need to read the book and understand that this has already happened. In 1992 at the U.N. Earth Summit, in Rio de Janeiro, President. Bush & 178 other countries signed this agreement. It has evolved from there and because it’s an “ agreement”, it’s considered a soft law that citizens didn’t have to approve. Because city councils only
amend these plans, there’s no reason for a vote from the public. It’s all under the guise of conservation & equitable access to housing, but the REAL reason is totalitarian control.
Trump getting U.S. out of U.N. & W.H.O., etc. has no baring on this issue. It’s literally imbedded in city goals and guidelines throughout the U.S. & other major international cities.
They are all a little different but have similar “ goals.” There aren’t a lot of signage saying UNITED NATIONS is behind all this. But it is. W.H.O. is also involved & funded ( majority) by Bill Gates. He & Soros, Schwab, Zuckerberg, King Charles, & many others, are pushing this agenda fast.
The U.N. may have not started out corrupt, but corrupt leaders made it that way. ( in the name of climate change, social inequities, and inclusion of all races )
It looks good on paper, perhaps, but the reality is loss of all country sovereignty & freedoms. It has nothing to do with/ U.N. military enforcement, etc.
And NGO’s work with individual cities & gov. agencies for infrastructure projects, development, etc. Read the book. Also, Patrick Wood “ Technocracy- you will own nothing”is great resource.
Bottom line: many don’t know this is happening. Or don’t see the big picture. They’re too busy feeding families & paying for gas. 🤦♀️
It’s not necessarily U.N. behind all this, but their “ sustainable goals” is/ was the guidelines used to justify all the changes being mandated. It’s brilliant actually, because who can argue against increased low income housing, rezoning to accommodate better transportation/ bike lanes, and getting rid of housing “ blight.”
You need to read about Agenda 21. ( now Agenda 30/50?)
Whatever city you live in, go to your city website and look up “ future” plans. It will have words like : Sustainable, Equitable, Smart, etc.
it doesn’t SAY U.N., and isn’t being promoted as that. Around 2002, all city planning agencies were mandated to follow this & city councils “ amend” the plans regularly.
You need to read this and put the pieces together yourself. Once you see it you can’t NOT see it. In Seattle, it’s everywhere. Even eminent domain has happened. Buckle up, it’s a lot to digest.
Of course city plans use buzz words like "sustainable, equitable and smart." If it didn't, they wouldn't be professional with a long-term view.
I don't think you understand the extraordinary steps it would take for UN troops to supercede local police, State police and Federal law enforcement. It's impossible. Nobody in the USA would support that, including law enforcement. . Even in the worst case scenario, the National Guard would be called up. Our law enforcement would not stand for an outside authority.
UN troops are for places without a standing military where law is unenforced, lawlessness and criminals rule, or where countries have disputes and need international monitoring. That is a good thing. Many places in the world do not have professional local, state and Federal law enforcement. The UN fills a vital role to keep the peace and stop warlords and criminals from taking over across borders.
UN troops will never be deployed in the USA. Period. Our law enforcement would not allow it. I have never understood the distrust of the UN by Americans. They are not a threat to the USA. In fact, they help keep the peace around the world. In a perfect world, if any country were to take aggressive action and invade another country, UN forces could stop the aggression with World agreement that aggression will not stand. But you see, that would stop wars and arms sales.
Eminent domain has happened forever. Yes, the law has been abused. This has nothing to do with the UN. It's not the UN taking anybody's land.
Historians describe the same process in every authoritarian transition: discrete steps, each deniable, each reversible in theory, none reversed in practice.
Some critics do argue that the rapid expansion of massive data center infrastructure in the United States could strengthen the power of large technology corporations and wealthy elites in ways that raise serious democratic concerns.
Their argument is that whoever controls the servers, AI systems, cloud platforms, communications networks and data pipelines increasingly controls finance, media, public discourse, surveillance capabilities, consumer behavior and even parts of government administration.
In that sense, critics worry that the concentration of technological infrastructure in the hands of a small number of billionaires and corporations could contribute to a more centralised and unequal society, especially when paired with aggressive nationalism, political polarisation and expanding surveillance technologies.
In other words, the Republicans have no intention of giving up power and are looking to turn America from a democracy to an “ultra pro-nationalism authoritarian” state - hence the wars and land grabs - please remember this is my personal view point from what I am seeing going on. And my area of expertise is in Political Science and Philosophy - I am a Professor at a University.
Another thing to remember is that China has only 8 to 12 of these data centers and they have a far greater population than America.
Not because every town, every family, or every person is rotten.
But because when you can scroll your feed for five bloody minutes and find stories of abused children, predators getting sweetheart deals, politicians protecting politicians, corporations protecting profits, and institutions protecting themselves before they protect kids... something is fundamentally fucked.
And spare me the speeches about freedom.
A country isn't judged by how loudly it waves a flag.
It's judged by how it treats the smallest, weakest, and most vulnerable people living under it.
Children.
If a child predator gets a slap on the wrist, that's a failure.
If a predator avoids a registry, that's a failure.
If victims have to spend years screaming to be heard, that's a failure.
If powerful people keep finding ways to fall upwards while ordinary people get crushed by the system, that's a failure.
And before someone starts crying "not all Americans," congratulations on missing the point.
The point isn't that every American is responsible.
The point is that far too many people have accepted a level of corruption, exploitation, violence, and bullshit that should have people marching in the streets.
A healthy society should make predators afraid.
A healthy society should make cover-ups impossible.
A healthy society should put children above politics, money, party loyalty, celebrity status, and institutional reputation.
Yet somehow, over and over again, the adults in charge seem to find a way to protect everything except the fucking children.
That's not freedom.
That's not justice.
That's not leadership.
That's a cesspool.
And the fact that so many people have stopped being shocked by it might be the most frightening part of all.
This cry - call out - rant has been said in many ways for so many days it accumulated into generations.
Like a lot that had gone ignored, bc the truth tellers were seen as too often complaining - too often sounding the alarms - too often objecting and too often defying and asking questions.
Data centres are becoming tools of control. They collect endless information about people, power surveillance systems, and increase dependence on technology controlled by governments and giant corporations. Behind convenience is a darker reality: less privacy, more manipulation, rising environmental damage, and a society growing more isolated, monitored, and emotionally exhausted by constant digital control.
Is anyone else thinking these centers aren't strictly for AI infrastructure, but for surveillance? All the data collected by all of America's Flock cameras, traffic cameras, future CBDC endeavors, etc., has to be collected, collated, and disseminated from somewhere, right?
Yes and detention centers
Modelled on the book 1984 - George Orwell published in 1949
That’s exactly what I’ve been thinking too!
BINGO. That is my thought as well!
Correct! Go to the head of the class. They are like electric dog fences but for more complex human beings. You are being fenced in by robotics that watches and tracks your every move. You are being profiled by your data. They will make avatars out of your persona; your voice, your image, etc. as it might be useful to them or as it suits them. The you that is you will be inside the data guts of their “Leviathan” machines. You are being swallowed like Jonah while the oligarchs play God with you. If you are not leary of this disruptive technology, you are a sap!
Exactly! So much data on us every day, listening devices (ALexa) and ALL apps on your phone, socials and browser histories, smart home devices, multi camera security systems, traffic cams, so many forced email sign ups (exponentially producing spam junk) already happening; all while A.I. blooms beyond the creator’s ability to regulate/control IT.
Surveillance and labour camps.
💯
And ask if AI is so great why hasn’t it designed resource efficient data centers?
And ask what the data centers are actually doing. Bitcoin mining, anyone?
No one, except the people who own them, knows exactly what data centers are doing. What kind of data? For what purposes? Did the Internet suddenly need more capacity so AI builders can steal more data? Is it for surveillance? Financial manipulation?
We simply do not know the actual purpose of data centers.
Taking the word of the owners of data centers is unlikely to end well for most people.
Unlimited blockchain technology in order to own everything and everyone.
💯
As someone in the tech industry, I can promise you it's overwhelmingly exactly what they say it's for. There's not a conspiracy there.
Mining crypto doesn't make sense almost anywhere in the U.S. because you can get power cheaper elsewhere, the latency doesn't matter in any way, and at this point you might not even break even due to sky-high GPU costs. If you want to build data centre's for surveillance, you only need a couple of them to cover everyone in the U.S. (and they already exist if you search for them).
The AI thing is the genuine, real reason in most cases - the latest AI models from Meta/X/Claude/OpenAI/and the dozen other companies all have over a trillion parameters. That's 1,000,000,000,000+ parameters.
So every AI query you or I run requires every single character to go through those 1,000,000,000,000+ parameters before coming out the other side. That's a HUGE amount of math to do, and all that work to generate ONE character of output. That giant input+output then gets fed back to itself in a loop to generate the next character of output. So every query anyone does, that's hundreds of those iterations.
And that's considered the cheap part. The expensive part is training it - doing that same process with an answer key trillions and trillions of times.
(And just a disclaimer, I'm not advocating for more of them, especially not how it's being done - I just figured you'd be interested!)
Thanks. Very informative.
This leads to other questions/problems I have about AI.
It sounds as though it’s massively inefficient from both a resources and computing power standpoint. Since AI apparently struggles with each calculation, it is unable to design more efficient back ended systems, data centers, for itself., for example.
And if training the systems is the expensive part, and the AI industry already appropriating much of this data for free by simply stealing it, who is on the receiving end of all the cash being paid for the “training”?
Thousands of programmers have been laid off, so this must be a very select group.
This leads back to efficiency. This seems very inefficient from an economic standpoint.
So, does this mean AI is a technology that is harming resources (water/electricity/land), harming humans with jobs losses, and economic disruption, and simply being too expensive, while also not being very efficient technically?
Doesn’t sound like a great “deal” to me.
And more specifically about data centers: When a data center exhausts all the water and exceeds the available power at one location, then what? Move on to the next place where water and power is still available and rinse and repeat?
Oh yeah, the efficiency is horrific. There's been some innovation there, like technically it's not so much one character (or token) at a time, but it can now be batched in various ways, but the point is it's still incredibly compute intensive.
The cost thing is complicated. Chip/memory makers like Nvidia and power/water suppliers are making off like bandits right now. Companies like Anthropic or OpenAI are generally losing billions and billions of dollars of investor money who all believe in a long-term future where we can't live without AI, and thus getting early on the train will result in crazy profit (and now software companies' who get a little bit more efficiency for writing code).
So yeah, don't really disagree.
Exactly WTF? Has to be shut down as fast as we can.
AI is perfect for capitalism. It's what machines did for capitalism during industrial revolution: replace workers and reduce costs. Capitalism profits from that: less costs, more consumerism = more profit. And as machine threatened workers with the loss of labor back then, capitalists are using AI to do massive layoffs to spread that fear right now. There aren't tech workers these days who aren't using AI. If you want to keep your job, regardless of what you think of it, you need it to use it.
Data Centers, to further enrich the stinking rich, off Our backs, their greedy fingers in our pockets, clandestinely, like they do on wall street
One reason they are picking the midwest is because of the water. Be very wary!
It's a money laundering scam,burn them all……..
EXACTLY!
Good question!
Personally, I have no use for AI. It is being shoved down the public’s throat. Why is it such a secret? Why don’t they build these things in other countries & not the US?
Anything that has ever been rushed into like this project, has always turned out to be a scam or a big painful problem for the general population. Red flags are everywhere, lack of transparency and information is unbelievable, the money thrown around is senseless. We can do better.
When has an administration that invokes national security to silence environmental review ever turned out to be right about the need for the silence?
Regardless of the environmental implications, no one should find out about large scale construction in their community from hearing said construction beginning.
I appreciate how you approach this issue in a measured, realistic way, not wholeheartedly condemning data centers nor blindly supporting them. You're arguing for transparency and fairness, which we could certainly use more of. In a very polarized world, we don't often hear a balanced approach like this, so thank you.
Ai is said to use 10x the energy of regular computing. So how can our infrastructure, environment and society withstand the energy use of the equivalent of 3.3 BILLION people computing on AI-driven devices just here in the USA? They are keeping it secret because "the devil is in the details."
But would our corporate-owned media keep such a major threat to the environment, society and future generations a secret, like they've done since the 70's with fossil fuel use and the climate disruption? You better believe it.
The corporate media has not fairly reported on the outrageous and unsustainable use of finite natural resources by data centers because of their major corporate bias. The media has not reported on companies that abandon their workers for AI and greater profits because of their corporate bias. To be fair, the corporate media never reports on labor issues. It's not a coincidence that Presidential debates on ALL the networks do not address climate disruption and solutions to protect future generations.
Just say NO to data centers. We did fine before now without them. I don't want AI for anything. If a business wants to build a data center, they can pay to power them with solar or wind power. I've got no problem with data centers that do not endanger society and future generations.
The energy question deserves a serious answer. 'Just say no to data centers' does not survive contact with a hospital that depends on them.
Name one hospital that cannot get a data center? Hospitals don't need more data centers. Hospitals are doing very good now.
TV commercials are running as interactive. These new types of advertising are causing the need for more data centers. Corporations want to store more data of consumers. Everywhere cars go with on-star are tracked. This data needs data centers to store the data and use AI for predicted advertising. This is driving Data centers, not hospital.
All this data compiled will be used by corporations to advertise. "Data is the new gold." If a driver goes past McDonalds everyday, ads can be sent to the driver goind past McDonalds using a voiced commercial. "Mr.Jones, you have 30 before arriving at your appointment, would you like a Big Mac and fries with a free drink? Offer expires in 10 minutes"
It's not hospitals that are driving the need for more data centers. You are trying to equate something important, hospitals, with something frivolous, deep consumer habits used for advertising. It's applies and oranges, bro. Consumer data is really not that important. People can buy what they want without ads.
Surely you see why all the data from consumer habits, with their location data, with info mined from their social media and past purchases and then is used by corporations' ads takes a million times more data and AI than fewer than 330 million American's health records?
More data centers really are not necessary. Trust me, hospitals have not shortage of data needs.
all this data is uselessly revolving from out of nowhere into our pants
You post as if hospitals are in business to help people😏
They ALL endanger us, even with solar & wind power. Solar & wind production is its own scam and will never create the needed power it claims. It’s stealing our resources in other ways, and the cost of upkeep in ridiculous.
Data centers spew diesel emissions & water needed for cooling is an enormous resource burden that’s not sustainable. Even with advanced technologies to filter chemical waters, clean, and replace that cooling water, will never truly “ replace” our mineral rich natural water sources.
They want us to trust the companies that are working to enslave us. What could go wrong?
Microsoft, Meta, Google, Amazon, Equinix, etc.
We can’t trade our freedoms for convenience.
We worked too hard for them. Veterans died for them. This is our war. 🇺🇸💕
"Solar and wind power ...will never create the needed power it claims," is your opinion that is based on current numbers and technology." Look how much efficiency has increased with engines over the last 20 years. The production cost has gone down too. Likewise, solar and wind technology will continue to produce more power at a lower cost. Of course, advancement happens faster with more investment in R&D.
Its not fair to dismiss solar and wind because of production predictions. You didn't explain why industry predictions will not materialize. It seems your mind is made up so you speculate industry production predictions will not materialize. It's very likely the industry used a curve to of industry advancement, like that of gas engines, to predict future energy production. This is fair because we have seen major advancements over time. The more we invest in R&D, the faster we will see more production at lower costs.
Your other false premise is that solar and wind are not viable because they can never produce the amount of energy made from fossil fuels. The goal is not to completely replace oil and gas. Replacing oil and gas with wind and solar was never the goal. The goal is to lessen the need for oil and gas, and lessen the US carbon release from oil and gas, by producing 10%, or 20%, or 30% of energy from alternative sources.
By replacing a fraction of the need to burn fossil fuels, or dependence on fossil fuels is decrease, and less green house gasses are produced. Keep in mind, with population growth around the world, just off-setting the increase usage due to population growth is a major victory for decreasing greenhouse gases.
Most importantly, having alternative energy brings down the cost of oil and gas because we have less dependency. Since oil and gas are finite resources, the more we produce and use brings us closer to peak oil when costs will greatly escalate. Investing in alternative energy pushes back the clock for peak oil. In this way, wind and solar increase USA National security and financial security for American consumers.
In closing, the strongest portfolios are diversified. US energy usage is the same way. Surely you can see the national security benefits if the US energy production portfolio was 25% wind, 25% solar, 25% oil and gas, and 25% nuclear?
The actual percentages will change over time based on many factors, including R&D investment.
The point is that USA national security is stronger with a more diversified energy portfolio, and consumers will pay less across the board for eneegy. An oil and gas only economy is mono-culture that is most vulnerable to geo-political factors like Iran. An oil and gas mino-culture is unsustainable for future generations for several reasons.
Another important factor I did not touch on is conservation. Conservation decreases our need for all energy sources. The major deal breaker for data centers is that they require too much energy from fossil fuels and all our conservation savings are lost.
I agree with your last sentence. I don’t agree that trading good farm land for solar or wind power is a sound solution. Free energy is not far away, and the people in charge are scrambling to get data centers built first. Many have been close to exposing this technology. Unfortunately, they had unexpected illnesses or accidents before they could. The prediction for wind & solar energy is no different than the claim of “ finite” oil & gas. How do we REALLY know the truth? We don’t. Maybe we have unlimited fresh water, oil, etc., hidden in Antarctica or protected by military regulations?
Also, we assume populations are growing, but many countries have had increased all- cause mortality, and less births. The total world population is another questionable assumption. China is an example of larger population data that many are questioning. ( there are a lot of empty buildings & entire areas)
Bottom line is we are not going to “ conserve” energy, by expanding data centers, that are unnecessary.
By adding solar, wind, and hydro- energy, we still won’t negate their harms. Meanwhile, we will have lost our veteran farmers & land, and will be left with depleted wastelands.
Pay attention to technology “ they” say we need for society, safety, etc., but the reality is completely different.
Digital ID, flock cameras, most “ smart” technology, have dual use & the reason they are promoted, aren’t always the REAL reason.
Sorry this reply is all over the place. I’m open to looking at all current technology & benefits. I just don’t trust those that tend to push & profit from it. In Wa. state, we are seeing dept. of Ecology behind a lot of potential corrupt practices to basically control/ steal land from long time farmers and ranchers. That is the story everywhere. Tech. companies & gov. agencies are teaming up to acquire land that has been family owned for over 100 years.
( Kings farm vs. Wa. dept of Ecology)
- another is 84 year old man( Spokane), that’s being fined for watering wrong field, with HIS water.
I disagree. Oil is a finite resource because it took millions of years of geologic circumstances to create. Oil is not still be created underground. Sorry, all geologists are in agreement that oil is a finite resource.
Long before all the oil is captured, we will reach peak oil. Peak oil is when it becomes much more expensive, or too expensive, to capture. Talk of drilling for oil in the Artic circle suggests that peak oil is not that far off. Deep water drilling suggests that we are approaching peak oil. The deep water Horizon disaster shows the dangers of trying to drill in difficult, unchartered waters.
China knows that the real race is to create more sustainable energy from solar and other alternative sources.
I agree that putting solar on good farmland is stupid. Look at all the land that is not farmable that is great for solar in the desert Southwest. Most rooftops are available for solar panels. Modern home designs with passive and active alternate energy sources can make power from the grid unnecessary. Surplus energy it put back on the grid. This technology is here.
Bottom line is that data centers are unnecessary and unsustainable. I'm sure Google and tech would love to have more data on consumers. With AI all the data can be mined to create personalized ads to us. The energy and water costs are not worth it. Medical research using AI can be done now without data centers. Using AI to create fake videos of politicians shows that the AI industry is unnecessary and a bad use of energy.
You are a smarty, for sure. Our real enemy is the U.N.Agenda 30. It won’t matter about oil when we aren’t allowed to travel anymore. It’s not a conservation thing, it’s a slavery thing. 🤦♀️ Have you listened to or read Rosa Koire book, “ Behind the Green Mask”? She’s also on YouTube. It’s dated a little, but very relevant.
The next few years will be interesting. Most people are completely unaware of local issues concerning “ future” plans in their own city. Many in the U.S. have mandated them into law. Lots of rezoning & eminent domain has happened in Wa. already. Lots of land grabs happening with our farmland here.
I don’t trust what gov. claims about oil reserves, etc. They all lie. I hope things change & citizens demand transparency. ✌️
I honestly dont ever see the UN having jurisdiction over any city or State in the USA. A UN imposed travel ban won't happen in the USA. Not ever. The UN knows better.
However, the UN should have jurisdiction over areas in Africa that have Ebola cases. The UN needs to lockdown that area and ban travel until the Ebola outbreak is contained.
It sounds like your interpretation of Agenda 30 does not consider why banning travel in certain areas is best for society. Don't you see why UN Security Forces should stop Ebola infected areas from traveling outside the affected areas and across borders? We pay the most for the UN, so we control what they do and do not do.
💯
Danny, you need to read the book and understand that this has already happened. In 1992 at the U.N. Earth Summit, in Rio de Janeiro, President. Bush & 178 other countries signed this agreement. It has evolved from there and because it’s an “ agreement”, it’s considered a soft law that citizens didn’t have to approve. Because city councils only
amend these plans, there’s no reason for a vote from the public. It’s all under the guise of conservation & equitable access to housing, but the REAL reason is totalitarian control.
Trump getting U.S. out of U.N. & W.H.O., etc. has no baring on this issue. It’s literally imbedded in city goals and guidelines throughout the U.S. & other major international cities.
Examples:
https://www.brussels.be/urban-development-projects
https://www.portland.gov/bps/planning/comp-plan-2035/about-comprehensive-plan
https://www.cityofsydney.nsw.gov.au/-/media/corporate/files/2020-07-migrated/files_s-2/social-sustainability-policy-and-action-plan-easy-english.pdf?download=true
They are all a little different but have similar “ goals.” There aren’t a lot of signage saying UNITED NATIONS is behind all this. But it is. W.H.O. is also involved & funded ( majority) by Bill Gates. He & Soros, Schwab, Zuckerberg, King Charles, & many others, are pushing this agenda fast.
The U.N. may have not started out corrupt, but corrupt leaders made it that way. ( in the name of climate change, social inequities, and inclusion of all races )
It looks good on paper, perhaps, but the reality is loss of all country sovereignty & freedoms. It has nothing to do with/ U.N. military enforcement, etc.
And NGO’s work with individual cities & gov. agencies for infrastructure projects, development, etc. Read the book. Also, Patrick Wood “ Technocracy- you will own nothing”is great resource.
Bottom line: many don’t know this is happening. Or don’t see the big picture. They’re too busy feeding families & paying for gas. 🤦♀️
It’s not necessarily U.N. behind all this, but their “ sustainable goals” is/ was the guidelines used to justify all the changes being mandated. It’s brilliant actually, because who can argue against increased low income housing, rezoning to accommodate better transportation/ bike lanes, and getting rid of housing “ blight.”
Read the book by Rosa Koire.
You need to read about Agenda 21. ( now Agenda 30/50?)
Whatever city you live in, go to your city website and look up “ future” plans. It will have words like : Sustainable, Equitable, Smart, etc.
it doesn’t SAY U.N., and isn’t being promoted as that. Around 2002, all city planning agencies were mandated to follow this & city councils “ amend” the plans regularly.
You need to read this and put the pieces together yourself. Once you see it you can’t NOT see it. In Seattle, it’s everywhere. Even eminent domain has happened. Buckle up, it’s a lot to digest.
https://archive.org/details/behindgreenmasku0000koir
https://substack.com/@stopthoseshots/note/c-268585648?r=19bo24&utm_medium=ios&utm_source=notes-share-action
Of course city plans use buzz words like "sustainable, equitable and smart." If it didn't, they wouldn't be professional with a long-term view.
I don't think you understand the extraordinary steps it would take for UN troops to supercede local police, State police and Federal law enforcement. It's impossible. Nobody in the USA would support that, including law enforcement. . Even in the worst case scenario, the National Guard would be called up. Our law enforcement would not stand for an outside authority.
UN troops are for places without a standing military where law is unenforced, lawlessness and criminals rule, or where countries have disputes and need international monitoring. That is a good thing. Many places in the world do not have professional local, state and Federal law enforcement. The UN fills a vital role to keep the peace and stop warlords and criminals from taking over across borders.
UN troops will never be deployed in the USA. Period. Our law enforcement would not allow it. I have never understood the distrust of the UN by Americans. They are not a threat to the USA. In fact, they help keep the peace around the world. In a perfect world, if any country were to take aggressive action and invade another country, UN forces could stop the aggression with World agreement that aggression will not stand. But you see, that would stop wars and arms sales.
Eminent domain has happened forever. Yes, the law has been abused. This has nothing to do with the UN. It's not the UN taking anybody's land.
Autocracy is achieved via incremental actions - then it’s too late.
Historians describe the same process in every authoritarian transition: discrete steps, each deniable, each reversible in theory, none reversed in practice.
Reversible if voters get at the actions early enough. To do that, voters have to be aware and action oriented
Never boiled a frog. Is that different than boiling crayfish or crabs?
Indeed, it's like boiling a frog
Absolutely 💯
Great question!
Here is your answer
https://substack.com/@blackfeatherfalken/note/p-199772092?r=79ritz&utm_medium=ios&utm_source=notes-share-action
And don’t forget the billions of license plates
AI often feels like “the cloud” until someone notices the water bill, the power grid, or the noise at 2 a.m.
Excellent piece.
It brings the physical world back into a conversation that usually floats above the ground.
Some critics do argue that the rapid expansion of massive data center infrastructure in the United States could strengthen the power of large technology corporations and wealthy elites in ways that raise serious democratic concerns.
Their argument is that whoever controls the servers, AI systems, cloud platforms, communications networks and data pipelines increasingly controls finance, media, public discourse, surveillance capabilities, consumer behavior and even parts of government administration.
In that sense, critics worry that the concentration of technological infrastructure in the hands of a small number of billionaires and corporations could contribute to a more centralised and unequal society, especially when paired with aggressive nationalism, political polarisation and expanding surveillance technologies.
In other words, the Republicans have no intention of giving up power and are looking to turn America from a democracy to an “ultra pro-nationalism authoritarian” state - hence the wars and land grabs - please remember this is my personal view point from what I am seeing going on. And my area of expertise is in Political Science and Philosophy - I am a Professor at a University.
Another thing to remember is that China has only 8 to 12 of these data centers and they have a far greater population than America.
America Is A Cesspool.
There. I said it.
Not because every American is bad.
Not because every town, every family, or every person is rotten.
But because when you can scroll your feed for five bloody minutes and find stories of abused children, predators getting sweetheart deals, politicians protecting politicians, corporations protecting profits, and institutions protecting themselves before they protect kids... something is fundamentally fucked.
And spare me the speeches about freedom.
A country isn't judged by how loudly it waves a flag.
It's judged by how it treats the smallest, weakest, and most vulnerable people living under it.
Children.
If a child predator gets a slap on the wrist, that's a failure.
If a predator avoids a registry, that's a failure.
If victims have to spend years screaming to be heard, that's a failure.
If powerful people keep finding ways to fall upwards while ordinary people get crushed by the system, that's a failure.
And before someone starts crying "not all Americans," congratulations on missing the point.
The point isn't that every American is responsible.
The point is that far too many people have accepted a level of corruption, exploitation, violence, and bullshit that should have people marching in the streets.
A healthy society should make predators afraid.
A healthy society should make cover-ups impossible.
A healthy society should put children above politics, money, party loyalty, celebrity status, and institutional reputation.
Yet somehow, over and over again, the adults in charge seem to find a way to protect everything except the fucking children.
That's not freedom.
That's not justice.
That's not leadership.
That's a cesspool.
And the fact that so many people have stopped being shocked by it might be the most frightening part of all.
🫴🏾💐🫂
This cry - call out - rant has been said in many ways for so many days it accumulated into generations.
Like a lot that had gone ignored, bc the truth tellers were seen as too often complaining - too often sounding the alarms - too often objecting and too often defying and asking questions.
Love ❤️ Sydney Australia 🇦🇺 hoping y'all take your country back once and for all
Your new map is an outstanding service! I'd love to follow up about our Substack Live conversation!
Data Centers, to further enrich the stinking rich, off Our backs, their greedy fingers in our pockets, clandestinely, like they do on wall street
They are worse than what you dealt with back in the day.
Questions are sometimes more revealing than answers!
Thank you, Erin.
Data centres are becoming tools of control. They collect endless information about people, power surveillance systems, and increase dependence on technology controlled by governments and giant corporations. Behind convenience is a darker reality: less privacy, more manipulation, rising environmental damage, and a society growing more isolated, monitored, and emotionally exhausted by constant digital control.